Tech Debt Burndown Podcast Series 2 E1: Krysztof (Chris) Daniel on Strategy and Wardley Maps

Posted on Sunday, Jan 15, 2023
Chris and Nick chat to Krysztof (Chris) Daniel about Strategy and Wardley Maps

Show Notes

Recording date: Jan 24, 2022

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“When they have figured out what this game was really about, they figured out what should be the response” - Krysztof (Chris) Daniel

After intros we start by asking Chris why he got the @wardleymaps Twitter handle, and he explains that he was doing an entrepreneurship course that got him interested in Wardley mapping; and from that he went on to develop an online tool to help people make maps. We then chat a little about Chris’s work at the Leading Edge Forum (LEF), where he works alongside Simon Wardley.

Nick speculates that mapping hasn’t really made it to the US yet, but Chris points out that there are already vibrant communities in the US before giving an overview of the Wardley mapping technique. He then illustrates the approach using a customer case study. This gets into the customer not really knowing what they had (in terms of assets) until they went through the mapping process.

The conversation then turns to situational awareness, and whether that’s a predominantly military concept. Given that there are plenty of veterans about (particularly in infosec), why is it that situation awareness isn’t used more in companies?

We then get into how maps can be used to understand tech debt in organisations. In particular how assets in the value chain that have become debt can be examined for change. That leads into a discussion of the elements of (awkwardly named) doctrine, and where they fit into the overall strategic picture.

Before closing, discussion moves on to corporate structure, which relates to Wardley’s pioneers, settlers and town planners (PST) model.


Krysztof (Chris) Daniel

Krysztof (Chris) Daniel

Krzysztof (Chris) Daniel is a researcher and advisor for DXC Leading Edge, teaching others how to effectively use Wardley Maps for their benefit. Chris works with customers to apply Wardley Maps to particular use cases, including outsourcing, IT modernization and business transformation. He enjoys mapping sessions with customers, guiding a process of identifying opportunities and risks and defining areas for growth. Chris is the author of the online Wardley Mapping course and an active member of the broader Wardley Mapping community.


Chris Swan

Chris Swan

Chris is a frequent speaker on topics such as serverless, DevOps, cloud, containers, security, networking and the Internet of Things. He’s also a cloud editor for InfoQ and a contributor to open source projects such as Docker, CoreOS and DXC’s Online DevOps Dojo.

Nick Selby

Nick Selby

Nick is Vice President of Assurance at Trail of Bits. He was formerly Chief Security Officer at a financial technology firm. Prior to that he was Director of Cyber Intelligence and Investigations at the New York Police Department. He is co-author of many books, including Cyber Attack Survival Manual; In Context: Understanding Police Killings of Unarmed Civilians and Blackhatonomics: An Inside Look at the Economics of Cybercrime.